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Old 04-23-2008, 11:18 AM   #1
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Default 93 octane gas stations?

Does anyone know of any gas stations that have a "premium" with a 93 octane rating instead of the usual 91 octane rating in the Carson/Reno areas?
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Old 04-23-2008, 11:42 AM   #2
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Don't think so. 91 is "premium" here because we get California gas.

Allied Washoe in Reno does have 100 unleaded however. $7.25/gal I think is the current price according to MikeK.
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Old 04-23-2008, 11:48 AM   #3
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The VPRacing on Prater and Pyramid has 100, but I don't know the price.
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Old 04-23-2008, 12:04 PM   #4
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VP racing has 93 oct, and 100 oct from the pump. Current price for 100 octane pump is 6.99 per gallon. They also have leaded 110 octane for 53.95 per 5 gallon can. You have to ask the clerk for this though, since it is leaded they say they are not allowed to display it.

There is one on West 7th street, just west of Keystone, and as Kevin said, one on the corner of Pyramid and Prater. The 7th Street location does not offer the 93 or 100 octane though, only the 110 cans.
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Old 04-23-2008, 12:40 PM   #5
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Thanks guys, looks like I need to hit VP to get the good stuff!
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Old 04-23-2008, 01:34 PM   #6
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Probably a stupid question. Does that stuff make everyone go faster or just modified cars?
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Old 04-23-2008, 01:48 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S2kreno View Post
Probably a stupid question. Does that stuff make everyone go faster or just modified cars?
Your engine needs some capacity to take advantage of higher octane. Generally that means higher compression, increased boost for FI, or advanced timing. Since 99% of us drive cars with engines meant for street use, longevity, emissions compliance, etc. we don't benefit from simply adding higher octane fuel. The only way you would is if your engine was already suffering performance losses on 91. Then 93+ would restore it to where it's supposed to be running.
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Old 04-23-2008, 01:59 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S2kreno View Post
Probably a stupid question. Does that stuff make everyone go faster or just modified cars?
for Autocross? Not really. Keep in mind this is with my limited experience of just this season.

For those of us with forced induction, running a higher octane fuel allows the turbo's boost to be increased more safely, without the risk of damaging key parts.

With the autocross genre, I, so far have not seen a need for running a high boost/octane map, and for the unexperienced autocrosser such as myself, could see it hurting me more than helping me. I go into corners WAY too hot as it is, and would probably be "adopting" twice as many cones if I was running my race fuel map.
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Old 04-23-2008, 02:14 PM   #9
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Unless your car is setup to use higher octane, it will REDUCE power VS. what the car is tuned/designed to run on. Whether that is high octane ECU MAP(s) or different Carb settings, that is the case.

Higher Octane in lay terms actually means a higher resistance to burn (due to being squished)!!! In a car not tuned for it, that resistance to burning will reduce power. At this altitude, it will be even worse. (Oooh, another variable to include in HAP. Octane)
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Old 04-23-2008, 02:33 PM   #10
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I am tuned safely for 91 octane at this elevation, but on a hot day of racing, you bet I spike the octane a bit to prevent knock. I use Torco, mostly, though.

Last edited by Cody; 04-23-2008 at 02:38 PM.
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Old 04-23-2008, 02:41 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cody View Post
I am tuned safely for 91 octane at this elevation, but on a hot day of racing, you bet I spike the octane a bit to prevent knock. I use Torco, mostly, though.
seems like a smart choice. I generally do the same. BUT, Nothin beats throwing some 110 in there, crankin up the boost and letting it fly. Cheapest aircraft carrier launch on earth
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Old 04-23-2008, 02:41 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cody View Post
I am tuned safely for 91 octane at this elevation, but on a hot day of racing, you bet I spike the octane a bit to prevent knock. I use Torco, mostly, though.
That's a seperate issue from performance gains though, and unique to modified engines.
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Old 04-23-2008, 02:43 PM   #13
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^You don't think stock FI cars will knock with a heat soaked IC Kev?
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Old 04-23-2008, 02:53 PM   #14
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I said no such thing.
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Old 04-23-2008, 03:00 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cody View Post
^You don't think stock FI cars will knock with a heat soaked IC Kev?
They won't knock much, because the ECU will (should) retard timing. So, higher octane gas won't make the car faster, it will just prevent the car from getting slower when the I/C heatsoaks.

That is assuming the 100 octane isn't already making the car slower to begin with as Dean mentioned.
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Old 04-23-2008, 03:11 PM   #16
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Right, regardless of whether the engine is modified or not (mine is not), if the ECU senses knock, it pulls timing in response, reducing HP, end of story.

Yes, 100 octane would be overkill. I tend to run 93 or so on hot days at Autocross. It certainly does seem to help keep the car from losing power.
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Old 04-23-2008, 03:14 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cody View Post
Right, regardless of whether the engine is modified or not (mine is not), if the ECU senses knock, it pulls timing in response, reducing HP, end of story.

Yes, 100 octane would be overkill. I tend to run 93 or so on hot days at Autocross. It certainly does seem to help keep the car from losing power.
I'm all for 93 octane in anything that requires 91... mostly because all the cars that require 91 are actually designed for 93 'cause that's what the rest of the country gets except for us poor shmoes on the west coast.
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Old 04-23-2008, 03:31 PM   #18
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but we're supposed to need less because of our high altitude....but we're supposed to need more because of our low humidity....but....crap
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Old 04-23-2008, 03:34 PM   #19
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My car is rated for 93, with a "reduced performance" at a 91 min. rating. I should think about about going for more on hot days then, correct?
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Old 04-23-2008, 03:35 PM   #20
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^I'd run 93 all day long if I were you. I'd keep a can of Torco in the car for long trips, emergencies, etc. The car will learn to take advantage of the 93 over time, increasing your available HP, on an ongoing basis.

But I'm sure it's safe to stick with 91. Alternating back and forth (unless using the 93 while racing) could actually be the worst thing. If the car learns to use the 93, it will knock when you go back to 91 and "get on it". It will of course "learn" to pull timing again, but this process isn't something you should attempt to repeat regularly.

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Old 04-23-2008, 03:41 PM   #21
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So the "ECU" can't adjust or re-learn that quickly to changes then? What about "re-setting" the "ECU" (disconnect the battery for extended period of time)?
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Old 04-23-2008, 03:50 PM   #22
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My RX7 Twin Turbo specifies "a minimum of 93 octane" (common stuff back in 1993), but of course I haven't been able to get that for quite a few years. Under normal conditions I don't notice any difference from the old days of better gas, but the last time I ran it at RFR, as the IC got heat soaked, I lost a ton of power and suspect it was from the ECU retarding timing to fight knock.

Where do you get the Torco?
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Old 04-23-2008, 03:51 PM   #23
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No, you would need to run 2 different maps in order to fully use the benefits of a higher octane fuel.

In your case I would suggest the APR ecu upgrade. APR is awesome in the sense that you can run multiple maps. I did this on my VW. I had a stock map, a 100 octane map, and a valet map (limited speed to 15 mph among other things), and it was loaded all at once. I could control which map I used with the cruise control buttons. 2bennett Audimotive is the closest place to Reno where you can get it installed (without mailing out your ecu and waiting for it to return). That is where I had mine installed, and they do awesome work. They are located in Davis, CA. http://www.2bennett.com is their website. If you're wanting to run multiple maps, an ECU upgrade is the way to go, in my opinion. It saves reflashing your ECU every time you want to change.
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Old 04-23-2008, 03:58 PM   #24
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Another option for you. I pulled this off another forum, and have tried the Toluene method myself. I had this tested at 107 octane, using 100 octane fuel as a base, and 30%. This is just up for debate, so please do not take any of these methods to heart unless you completely know what you're doing, or have alot of money to spend on new equipment, as I am in no way a chemist.

Here are some common ways to boost your octane using off the shelf products. I pulled this off another car site.

Formula #1 - Toluene
R+M/2.........114
Cost...........$2.50/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...........94.2 Octane
20%...........96.4 Octane
30%...........98.6 Octane
Notes: Common ingredient in Octane Boosters in a can. 12-16 ounces will only raise octane 2-3 *points*, i.e. from 92 to 92.3. Often costs $3-5 for 12-16 ounces, when it can be purchased for less than $3/gal at chemical supply houses or paint stores.
Formula #2 - Xylene
R+M/2.........117
Cost...........$2.75/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...........94.5 Octane
20%...........97.0 Octane
30%...........99.5 Octane
Notes: Similar to Toluene. 12-16 ounces will only raise octane 2-3 *points*, ie. from 92 to 92.3. Usually mixed with Toluene and advertised as *race formula*.

Formula #3 - Methyl-tertiary-butyl-ether (MTBE)
R+M/2.........118
Cost...........$3.50/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...........94.6 Octane
20%...........97.2 Octane
30%...........99.8 Octane
Notes: Oxygenate. Very common in octane booster products. Has lower BTU ontent than toluene or xylene, but oxygenate effect makes the gasoline burn better and produce more energy.
Formula #4 - Methanol or Ethanol
R+M/2.........101
Cost...........$0.60 - $1.75/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...........94.3 Octane (Methanol)
10%...........94.7 Octane (Ethanol)
20%...........Not Recommended
Notes: Methanol is wood alcohol. Ethanol is grain alcohol and found in Gasohol in 10% ratios. Both alcohols are mildly corrosive and will eat gas tank linings, rubber and aluminum if used in excessive ratios. Main ingredient in "Gas Dryers", combine with water.

Formula #5 - Isopropyl Alcohol and Tertiary Butyl Alcohol
R+M/2.........101
Cost...........$0.60-$1.50/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...........94.5 Octane
20%...........Not Recommended
30%...........Not Recommended
Notes: Similar to Methanol/Ethanol. Isopropyl Alcohol is simply rubbing alcohol.

Sample Mixture
To make your own octane booster, it is easiest to make up a large batch, and then bottle it up in "dosage-size" uses. Below is the basic formula of one of the popular octane booster products. To make eight 16 ounce bottles (128 oz = 1 gal):
100 oz of toluene for octane boost
25 oz of mineral spirits (cleaning agent)
3 oz of transmission fluid (lubricating agent)
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Old 04-23-2008, 04:02 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsmith View Post
My RX7 Twin Turbo specifies "a minimum of 93 octane" (common stuff back in 1993), but of course I haven't been able to get that for quite a few years. Under normal conditions I don't notice any difference from the old days of better gas, but the last time I ran it at RFR, as the IC got heat soaked, I lost a ton of power and suspect it was from the ECU retarding timing to fight knock.
Before I went to a front mounted intercooler I would get the same thing at RFR about 5 minutes into each session. I use 2 or 3 gallons of 100 in each tank of 91 to prevent this.
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