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Old 08-23-2011, 01:27 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexR View Post
thx
Scott K told me to use the same points schedule as autocross (10,8,6,5,4,3,2,1)... if you guys come up with some rallycross specific supplemental regulations that use different points, let me know and I can re-run the standings.
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Old 08-23-2011, 02:22 PM   #52
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cool. oh and there really is no MA class I was Mod 4wd for the first event, but i didn't have a 4 Magnet so i used an A instead. and that ended up on my class info (same for Jeana)

Also Chad Ellsion was in Stock Front. he just happened to run in the M4 run group (think we needed him to work in the morning) so he should be scored as SF for the 3rd event (and for season points)

our bad.
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Old 08-23-2011, 03:03 PM   #53
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cool. oh and there really is no MA class I was Mod 4wd for the first event, but i didn't have a 4 Magnet so i used an A instead. and that ended up on my class info (same for Jeana)

Also Chad Ellsion was in Stock Front. he just happened to run in the M4 run group (think we needed him to work in the morning) so he should be scored as SF for the 3rd event (and for season points)

our bad.
Updated! Let me know if it looks correct.
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Old 08-23-2011, 04:06 PM   #54
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looks perfect !
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Old 08-23-2011, 05:08 PM   #55
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Thanks for the posts of results. They look good and we use 10-8-7-6 for points breakdown, but you don't need to change them.

Thanks again,
Brent
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Old 08-23-2011, 05:38 PM   #56
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Thanks for the posts of results. They look good and we use 10-8-7-6 for points breakdown, but you don't need to change them.

Thanks again,
Brent
Did anyone ever write up some SCCA rallyx sups? The points schedule should be known prior to the season start... granted this season no one even knew if there was going to be more than the one event, but it would be good to get some regs written up with that sorta info and get it voted on by the board/general membership.
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Old 08-23-2011, 07:49 PM   #57
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good idea. i can get with Scott , Tom, and ask Brent if he has some for his region to peek at. and get some drafted up
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Old 08-23-2011, 09:23 PM   #58
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That sounds like a good idea. This will work for the Reno region much better, as it has been stated multiple times that if "I" didn't create a series for SCCA in Norcal, there wouldn't be any series. So we didn't have almost any SCCA members until we started doing National Challenge events. Now there are approximately 30 SCCA members specifically because of Rallycross in Norcal, which is, in fact, the perfect number to form a region, ooohhhhh. Everyone seems very laissez faire about these types of decisions. I would love it if people wanted to be apart of making these decisions/supps for our area. So, certainly you guys, "Reno region", should do what should be done regarding creating the structure for a rallycross program. I feel jealous that you are already bringing this up, as it is a sign of a successful path for a start.

Oh yeah, Alex, nothing to peak at. We still operate without any involvement/interest from our region. We do what we want and they don't ask. I occassionally go to Sacramento Chapter Board meetings just to remind myself what we are missing out on by not having members who want to be apart of the process. Someday that will change.

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Old 08-23-2011, 10:10 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by pomspeed View Post
That sounds like a good idea. This will work for the Reno region much better, as it has been stated multiple times that if "I" didn't create a series for SCCA in Norcal, there wouldn't be any series. So we didn't have almost any SCCA members until we started doing National Challenge events. Now there are approximately 30 SCCA members specifically because of Rallycross in Norcal, which is, in fact, the perfect number to form a region, ooohhhhh. Everyone seems very laissez faire about these types of decisions. I would love it if people wanted to be apart of making these decisions/supps for our area. So, certainly you guys, "Reno region", should do what should be done regarding creating the structure for a rallycross program. I feel jealous that you are already bringing this up, as it is a sign of a successful path for a start.

Oh yeah, Alex, nothing to peak at. We still operate without any involvement/interest from our region. We do what we want and they don't ask. I occassionally go to Sacramento Chapter Board meetings just to remind myself what we are missing out on by not having members who want to be apart of the process. Someday that will change.
I'm not familiar with the politics of the NorCal series you guys are involved with. Are you saying you run your events with essentially zero oversight or assistance from your region?

In general it's a good idea for a region to publish regs for a championship before the season starts. That way, everyone that competes knows what the rules are before round 1. Also, regs include rules about event fees, worker assignments, championship eligibility, etc. See the Reno solo sups here: http://www.renoscca.org/documents/Ge...pps%202011.pdf

Plus, it's nice to run events with the participation of the board so that the region is able to put a unified "face" on all the events. It would be detrimental to the rally and track programs, for example, if the autocross program started getting a reputation for being rude to new drivers, or if the track program got a reputation for being too expensive, or whatever. Since we all share the same regional name, we're all affected by the actions of each program. Having sups ratified by the general membership keeps everyone feeling like all the programs are in the best interest for all the members.

I'm totally surprised if you guys are being left to run things on your own in NorCal. In Reno, the sups are usually written up and voted on in the off-season. Like I said, rallycross basically started as a one-off event this season, but since it looks like there's going to be enough events for a limited 2011 championship, you might want to take a pass at some rules, or at least discuss it at the next SCCA meeting. I can't remember what we did in 2004 for the first season of time trials, but it was similarly without regs that first season. I think we published some results, but didn't have an official championship.
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Old 08-24-2011, 01:56 PM   #60
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Let's just say that zero oversight and no assistance would have been easier. I've learned alot about dealing with people who only hold negative reservations towards something they aren't involved with and how it is easier to just do what has to be done to have fun and provide fun rallycrosses for others to enjoy.

We're still working to establish some of those basics that you speak of, that's why I've said that Reno region has a great opportunity to get this going "structure" wise.

Believe me, the "potential image" is one of the key reasons why I spent more time making events enjoyable than wasting time debating with people who only want to make things harder. If the region wanted to be apart of our program, that would be fine, but I think they are happy doing their thing, which seems wrong, but like I said, I spend my time where it's needed most. Because if the situation weren't enough, I used to spend time debating the SCCA vs. CRS concept since '07, but finally just stopped and focused on our program, yeehaw!

As for the 3 Reno events, that's why I was happy to go and help where I could to get you guys up to speed. Scott was doing his RX safety steward stuff at our events at PC, so that you guys have one to start with, now you just need 2-3 more for easy event coverage, that and more support from the Reno area for competitors, that's why it's awesome you guys were given a free club car, that makes it easy for existing members to give it a try, not focus your whole life, just support the regions first few events to keep them from dying before it gets a chance to live.

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Old 08-25-2011, 09:04 AM   #61
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Interesting...

Anywho there's enough time, so i'll try to draft something before our next club/board meeting and send it around as a "rough draft/ proposal" and at least get the ball rolling.

for the most part i'll just copy our autocross supps and make rallyx appropriate changes (taking out tuner class for example, adding a watering section, etc)

I may actually write 2 different sections for 2 driver cars, and let the board decide what's in the better interest of the program. i think with larger turn outs no more than 2 in a row works fine. with a small turn out event it seems to add in some delays where we ended up doing 3, other driver 5 then 2 ... which probably won't make its way into any version of the supps but we'll have to see what we can come up with.

(very open to ideas)

also the whole missed gate / DNF thing . I'm really starting to warm up to a 10 or 15 second missed gate penalty. Instead of an automatic DNF , its a bit less punitive for the newer drivers. I just don't want it to lead to any safety issues.

I think at a certain missed gate count, that run should be a DNF (ie they are too lost or out of control)

And a DNS should probably be scored the same as a DNF, or maybe at a slightly higher penalty

If Brent and I are Tied going into our last run. he starts the course but breaks down before finishing. and i break down before even taking the starting line. he completed more of the course than i did, and should be scored ahead of me, But he should be scored behind anyone who actually finished all of their runs...
so maybe worst time in your class +10 for a DNF, but +12 for a DNS ??? (+11 ? +15) ?

possible wording to make it clear and easy. DNF = worst run in your class (ignoring DNF scores) + 10
DNS = worst run in your class (including DNF Scores) + 10

the DNS needs to be bad enough that there's never a situation where someone sits out their last run, to get a DNS and still win...

hmmm... its easier to drive around cones, than make rules about driving around cones!

Maybe it needs to be stated you can't be scored above someone who actually finished all of their runs?

I can't think of a race track , or rally situation where if in a 10 lap race if i break down on lap 7 , that i would be scored higher than someone who finished 8 laps, or all 10. (of course its not a track race, or a rally)

Definitely needs some thought, discussion, and input . I guess at this point in the programs life, the rules should really be made in a way that encourages new people to enter... hmm...


and for re-runs should Cones carry over? say i ran first and hit a cone, but there was a timing and scoring error, and i get a re-run. that's giving me an unfair advantage over the next driver who doesn't get a re-run .

hmm I can see reasonings for both. If i hit the same cone on my 2nd run. now i'm charged with 2 cones, essentially because of a timing problem. Ok I'll draft 2 versions of that section as well and ask for debate on it.
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Old 08-25-2011, 09:36 AM   #62
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I like the idea of missing a gate not being a DNF, but instead being a penalty. Call it an "OFF" instead of a DNF. +10, the equivalent of 5 cones, sounds like a reasonable penalty. Because a DNF or DNS on a single run results in essentially DQing you from the whole event, it's nice to have some way to allow people to make big mistakes without completely ending their day. Otherwise, a missed gate on the 1st run and you might as well pack up the car and go home.

It would be a PITA for timing and scoring, but if a person gets a DNF or DNS on a run, after the event you could give them the same time as the slowest completed run by another competitor in that class. That way, they can't possibly make up ground on anyone because of that poor run, but if they ran well otherwise they may still be able to place ahead of others.

Or, an alternative would be to throw out one slowest run for each person. So you can DNF or DNS once, and still get scored for 4 of 5 runs or something. In fact, that also gives everyone the option to push hard until they have one bad run, or go all-out on their last run, which might be good for competition.

Also, the sups need to be clear about how the event is scored in terms of the sum total of all runs. That's a notable difference from autocross where you're scored by your single fastest run.

Oh, and for the re-runs... IMO, a re-run is a re-run. It's the luck of the draw if you happen to get one... if you happen to get to erase a mistake, that's cool, but you're just as likely to turn a clean run into a messy one too. I'd just do it the same way autocross does, and pretend the 1st run never happened.
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Old 08-25-2011, 11:58 AM   #63
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Sups are of course a good idea, and will be needed going forward into next year. Alex, you should get together with Scott Knauf and especially Wes Friesen; not only because Rally X falls under his bailiwick as Solo Chief, but also because he has experience crafting Sups and Regulations. This year Rally X started out as just a single "demonstration" event to see if we could do it, and morphed into a three event series on the fly, so to speak. Very much trial and error, but a lot was learned.

There is much to be discussed about next year and Rally X, and we definitely need more Reno Region members as participants - can't hope to continue based solely on Cali drivers. And of course, with RFR you never know if the gates will still be open, so alternate sites should be lined up. But this is as good a time as any to start working up the rules and regs for 2012.
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Old 08-25-2011, 01:55 PM   #64
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Sups are of course a good idea, and will be needed going forward into next year. Alex, you should get together with Scott Knauf and especially Wes Friesen; not only because Rally X falls under his bailiwick as Solo Chief, but also because he has experience crafting Sups and Regulations. This year Rally X started out as just a single "demonstration" event to see if we could do it, and morphed into a three event series on the fly, so to speak. Very much trial and error, but a lot was learned.

There is much to be discussed about next year and Rally X, and we definitely need more Reno Region members as participants - can't hope to continue based solely on Cali drivers. And of course, with RFR you never know if the gates will still be open, so alternate sites should be lined up. But this is as good a time as any to start working up the rules and regs for 2012.
There's no 4th round this year? I thought there was still one more event to go for some reason.
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Old 08-25-2011, 02:12 PM   #65
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I haven't heard anything... But i would be game for a 4th event, maybe in the winter and we can call it the "pray for snow" rally cross.

Pick a date that is historically cold in December , water late at night with hopefully freezing temps and .. might work out great.

Or it will be sunny and 60 degrees, and some how our first autocross will be 35 with snow. lol

Ya we do need to grow to the point where we are sustainable with out the Cali drivers.. but we kinda have to crawl before we walk.


There was a handful of reno people with interest but weren't able to make it due to a variety of issues.

Garth got a "wheel centering ring" stuck on his hub when he changed to his dirt tires, Bill robotham was going to use his car.
Nick Clarke just bought a rally car, a week before the event but it was having over heating issues that he maybe , maybe fixed on sunday
Heather and her BF were interested but i think had a scheduling conflict
Pat signed up but then got called into work
Dempsey had to work
Ansel was busy (parenting stuff)
Paul couldn't get the weekend off (parenting or wife stuff)
before the next event I'm going to try and make some flyers and put them up a week or two before at various places (UNR, auto part stores, ??? other locations)
Cody was out of town


had we gotten just 2 more it would have been 4 as both Tim M and Tom B would have raced, but there was no one to relieve them of timing and scoring duties.

I think if we could find a site closer to town we might pick up an other person or two. we've seen FRF autoX events have a slight attendance dip compared to stead

There was 1 car that had problems from racing. Ivan's newly bought Impreza 2.2 did have his air filter and MAF rattle off. BUT he bought the car with a horrible CAI installed, it wasn't secured to anything at all, and ivan tried to make a helper bracket .. but it didn't help enough I don't know that he would have lost it at an autoCross or track day, but its likely as the org install was really bad.
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Old 08-25-2011, 02:28 PM   #66
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if we would have had one more paid entry the event would have come out in the black I cant thank every one enough but Tim and Tom really went above and beyond figuring they didn't drive except when i forced them to take a fun run in the Pulsar come to think of it fun might not be the right way to describe driving that car
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Old 08-25-2011, 08:04 PM   #67
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^ ahh, quit picking on the pulsar! I like the above suggestions from alex, scott, brent, etc...sups are in order, and if you need any help, Alex, contact me...
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