Plate and Clutch style LSDs longevity

[AlexR]

Howdy, I'm wondering if anyone in our club has experience with Plate/Clutch style 1.5 LSDs. specifically how long can you expect one to last before it needs adjusting or a rebuild kit?

I've heard some people say they will last about 30-60K miles (the person was specifically referring to the Stock 05 STI rear clutch style LSD)

and i've heard people say they will only last about 500 miles (on say a type cusco Type-MZ)

Can some people chime in?


has anyone installed an aftermarket clutch/plate style diff ?
How long until it was worn out, or was wearing out ?

I'm leaning towards a 1.5 way cusco type-mz for my rally car (rear diff once i go Awd) BUT i hate the thought it will wear out and need constant adjustment / replacement parts inbetween rallies.

A typically rally is about 300 miles with 66% of that transit , and the transits are usually on paved , twisty roads.

then mix in maybe 1200 commuter miles in between events

is it gonna be worn out? (or will the functionality be significantly reduced?)

I've seen some pretty shocking results with the Phantom grip (50 foot pounds reducing to 5 foot pounds just a few weeks later) :eek:

If so that answers my question for me

[tom1977]

I dont know everything about diffs, but clutch type will last depending on how correctly they are installed and broken in. I am not sure, about subaru, but supposedly helical style diffs. are more "user friendly" I would imagine that 30-60k miles is pretty good. I will read about the phantom grip tonite, I haven't heard of that yet...
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[vic]

If Kaaz makes one for your car get that. I know guys that have road raced FWD cars (very hard on lsd's) with those for years without any problems. I am talking 240-300 whp and running 20 races a year at 60 miles per race day.

[AlexR]

Cool. 20 races @ 60 miles is 1200 miles, I've put a bit more than that in my last 4 rallies (250+350+300+480) Granted 70% of that is transit where I'm driving at the speed limit in a normal fashion. Typically i do a lot of commuting as well (1000 miles a month) But if its not going to be an issue in terms of wearing out .

One thing i notice with my Torsen up front is how it sends the torque around with out locking up the axle, giving the car just the right amount of gas through a corner you can feel the outside tire putting the power down, not only does this pull you through the corner it also seems to try and rotate the car as well (which lets me use a smaller steering angle)

How would a clutch style rear diff affect the cars behavior as i'm laying on the gas 1/2 way through the corner? would the lock up of the rear axle cause an increase in slip angle (rear axle of course) does forcing the inside tire to spin at the outside tire speed cause a loss of grip / power transfer?

the rear tires come off the ground more than the fronts, and if/when i get the car high centered i could see having clutch style diffs helping to get me unstuck a lot more than a torsen would.

looks like the cost difference is 1,000 for the clutch style and 1250 for the Torsen hmmm . how long before i need to spend 250 in matience? at least a year (estimating) maybe a few? hmmm


Thanks for the input! :)

[vic]

With a clutch type you can completly lift a wheel and still have torque to the other wheel. Unless its a locker you will loose torque to the wheel on the ground if the other looses all traction with the other type. My vote is clutch type and spend a little extra to get a quality diff. Just my $.02.

[tom1977]

like vic said, kaaz is a very good unit. That is what I chose for my toyota. They are very well liked by many...cusco is a good unit as well
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[solonut]

Alex..... http://www.osgiken.co.jp/

[AlexR]

Cool!, though the one site i found it for sale has it at 1657.58
I've found a Quaife Torsen for $1200
and a Kaaz 1.5 way for $950
Think i've seen a Cusco 2way for $1000 as well ...

Most of the research I've found points to using clutch type lsd's in rally. I'm a lil worried as most people who use them seem to know how to adjust them and that seems over my head. and i don't like putting parts on the car that will raise my cost of doing a rally. (added matainence and parts , fluids)

I need to find someone who daily drives a clutch style lsd and see how long it lasted them. probably the route i'm gonna go though. thanks :)

[Kevin M]

This is one of those things where you're going to have to choose between going faster, or keeping it cheap. You're not likely to find a solid compromise.

[AlexR]

Ya, It at least seems like it would be a lot easier to do matainance on the rear diff than front or center.

I was driving my rally car on brunswick to sunset pass last night (22 miles of dirt) sort of thinking bout my diff. the front Torsen really screws up drifting . you can get your car on the line you want with the slip angle you want and all of a sudden the power shift greatly to the inside tire, then back to the outside and you're either off line, or you've just made a large slip angle adjustment...

I'm guessing that behavior would only get worse with a rear torsen... ARG..

Kaaz for the win?

how hard is it to do the maintance on a diff, compared to say changing a strut , or a half shaft.. ? :)

[tom1977]

for what it is worth, I chose a kaaz 1.5 for my mr2. Different racing application, great diff. IMHO
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[AlexR]

May i drive your MR2 in the dirt to feel out its handling characteristics? :P hehehe

[tom1977]

May i drive your MR2 in the dirt to feel out its handling characteristics? :P hehehe
I dont have the diff installed... but I do have a set of old tires....where is the best dirt at?
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[AlexR]

Poking around some rally board, i found someone who told me i should have the Ft/lbs break way set to 150-200 ft/lbs , and that if i set it that high it should last a very long time. (as long as i never mis match my tire OA diameter on the rear axle)

Anyone in town capable of rebuilding a plate diff, to a Torque spec?

[noel]

Alex, Gilbert uses the Cusco in the 2.5RS. After 4yrs, our tuning consultant re-shimed it this year. The car's daily driven and has seen on the order of 250-300 hard autox runs a year. As Vic mentioned, clutch-type is the way to go. Helical LSD is still an open diff when you lift a wheel which is the norm for AWD cars. On my previous Audi, I had a custom clutch-type rear diff in a daily driven autox/track car for 2 years. It worked well right up to the point it crashed. And the clutch LSD on my EP civic has never been changed but it's only a competition car.

[AlexR]

Awesome that's exactly what i'm looking for !

Do you guys test your Break away torque? if so what are you running? hehe :)

thanks! its Visa Vendetta time! :devil:

[noel]

I don't think that Gilbert adjusted the LSD after he bought it. From what I heard, it's set high.