The official Q&A thread for our June 5 Track Event

[jim.gandy]

Use this thread to post your questions about our upcoming June 5th Track Day at Reno-Fernley Raceway. We'll try to get answers in a timely manner. Remember, if you have a question, probably somebody else has the same question, so let's spread the information as widely as possible -- thanks!

[MikeK]

Policy on passengers?

How will overtaking be handled?

Which track configuration will be used?

[solonut]

Policy on passengers?

Passenger(s) will be allowed to ride with an Instructor in any session during the course of an event. The passenger(s) must wear appropriate clothing and an approved helmet. All passengers must sign an event waiver. It is recommended that only one person be allowed to ride at a time. The purpose of these "rides" is to educate and inform potential participants. Prior approval need not be requested in the event Supplemental Regulations. Rides can be provided on an as needed basis.

How will overtaking be handled?

Passing is point-by on drivers left is set passing zones




More info on configuation to follow

[jim.gandy]

Track configuration is undecided at this point, because there is ongoing pavement work taking place at R-FR (shout hooray!). Most likely candidates are "H" (up the hill, across the top, down to the horseshoe) and "C" (the entire outer perimeter). But, it will depend on what configurations are actually available as the event draws nearer. Don't expect final word on configuration until 7-10 days before the event. Sorry...

Overtaking will be handled the same way we have done it at PDX/Trials for the last several years. Three or four "passing zones" will be designated by cone markers. Passing will be allowed only within the passing zones, only on the left of the car being overtaken, and only with a "point-by" from the driver of the car being overtaken.

[solonut]

June 5 Track Event is ON!by Jim Gandy (http://www.renoscca.org/?page=userdetails&user_id=4) at 2:43 pm, May 6Great news! The SCCA sanction has been received, so our June 5th Track Day at Reno-Fernley Raceway is now official! We'll have sessions for Performance Driving eXperience (PDX), Club Trials and Track Trials. The entry fee is a great deal at just $175, and there are special discounts, too. We're working on getting our on-line registration process up and running, so watch this site for the web address -- it'll be posted very soon. And if you're interested in volunteering, remember that workers at our Track Events get a voucher that can be applied to the entry fee at any of our competition events. Make plans to join us Saturday, June 5th -- it'll be a great day at the track!

[zpeed]

I just finish register for CT. Why my name show up on PDX too?
I have a convertible w/ 4 points roll bars no hard top, so do I need just arm restraints or window net or both.

[BillH]

I just finish register for CT. Why my name show up on PDX too?
I have a convertible w/ 4 points roll bars no hard top, so do I need just arm restraints or window net or both.

Nat, Are you still using the stock belts?



All drivers in PDX (Level 1) events may utilize a restraint harness meeting the specifications of section 12.1 in lieu of the factory/OEM restraints.
A seven-point restraint harness is recommended for all events. Arm restraints are optional on all cars but recommended on all open cars including open Targa tops, sunroofs and T-tops. The restraint system installation is subject to approval of the Chief Technical and Safety Inspector.

[solonut]

I just finish register for CT. Why my name show up on PDX too?
I have a convertible w/ 4 points roll bars no hard top, so do I need just arm restraints or window net or both.

Arm restraints like you did before...

[zpeed]

Yes, Bill stock seat & belt. I just look up online how to use them. This are what I find out. Window net need roll cage for mounting points and arm restraint need harness. I don't have either cage or harness. So do I just run with soft top up or I need to change it to PDX?

I just want to drive on the track don't care about PDX or CT.

[crnrcrvr]

My son wont be 16 till June 7th. Would he be able to work with me if I wanted to man a corner station ? (show him the ropes so to speak)

Thanks,
Mike

[solonut]

My son wont be 16 till June 7th. Would he be able to work with me if I wanted to man a corner station ? (show him the ropes so to speak)

Thanks,
Mike

wont be able to be on the hot track, but he can work in timing....My 15yo grand daughter works in timing...and he can also help Carol

[BillH]

Yes, Bill stock seat & belt. I just look up online how to use them. This are what I find out. Window net need roll cage for mounting points and arm restraint need harness. I don't have either cage or harness. So do I just run with soft top up or I need to change it to PDX?

I just want to drive on the track don't care about PDX or CT.

You're fine for either CT or PDX.

I checked your stock belts last year to see if my arm restraints would work, they would not.

A window net is not required but all cars must run with the windows open.

[zpeed]

I try to bring my friend how can I get credit for that?

[silvios203]

do you guys know if registration is up an running?

[solonut]

do you guys know if registration is up an running?

here ya go!!
http://www.motorsportreg.com/index.cfm/event/event.advert/uidEvent/6F052D90-0DC5-3C83-F7B616EFE6CF8E4A

[dknv]

I try to bring my friend how can I get credit for that?Cool! I hope this works out. Your friend will benefit from belonging to a cool organization, you will benefit from SCCA credit (plus entry into the membership drive contest!), and the region benefits in our membership drive.

If your friend gets an SCCA membership at the event - on the membership form, write in your name and membership number.

If they become a member online before the event, there is a place for your name/membership number to be added.

[S2kreno]

A window net is not required but all cars must run with the windows open.
Yuck, it's hard to get the dirt out of your mouth and the rocks pit your sunglasses.....

[S2kreno]

But I'll be there! Yay and thanks to everyone who made it happen :)

[Old Rallyist]

It would be fun to do one of the events at Reno-Fernley. Are open cars such as my Mazda able to run without hardtop or aftermarket rollbar/cage? The hardtop is not an option as it is not possible for me to drive while wearing a helmet wth it in place.

[zpeed]

May be a lead and follow but not a PDX or CT. Open car without any kind of roll over protection would be a safety issue.

[BillH]

It would be fun to do one of the events at Reno-Fernley. Are open cars such as my Mazda able to run without hardtop or aftermarket rollbar/cage? The hardtop is not an option as it is not possible for me to drive while wearing a helmet wth it in place.

Unfortunately, Darrell, no.

Performance Driving Experience
All automobiles that are street legal and posses a current valid license and registration; and meet
the inspection required by Level 1-TTR section 9.2.1. Proof of annual Tech Inspection in Time
Trials or Club Racing shall meet this requirement. Vehicles that are not street legal must be
eligible for classification in Reno Region Time Trials Stock or Production Classes. Open
wheeled cars are not allowed in PDX. Convertibles must have factory rollover protection, a
removable factory hardtop installed with factory attachments or a roll bar as specified in TTR,
section 11.1.

It's just too dangerous. It only takes that one freak occurrence to justify the rollbar or hardtop ( I've been there as an instructor in a convertable and only luck saved us from a very bad day).

Can you recline the seat slightly? I've driven Miatas with my helmit touching the top slightly.
Also, a race seat would drop you down a bit.

Hope you can find a way to make it.

[vic]

It would be fun to do one of the events at Reno-Fernley. Are open cars such as my Mazda able to run without hardtop or aftermarket rollbar/cage? The hardtop is not an option as it is not possible for me to drive while wearing a helmet wth it in place.

I road race with a guy that drives a spec Miata that is at least 6' 3" maybe taller. Also a roll bar is an option and will work with your soft top.
I will post a link for you. Bethania Garage Inc. & Harddog Fabrication Home (http://www.bethania-garage.com/)

[zpeed]

That is the same shop that build my S2000 roll bars. Top quality, fast shipping with reasonable price.

[dsmith]

Will it be possible for two drivers to share the same car in PDX? How many PDX groups are planned?

[jim.gandy]

Don, check the event schedule available on our website under Documents & Forms. You'll find we have PDX A and B groups. Each group is slated for three sessions by themselves and a fourth session where A and B are combined. If that's satisfactory to you, I don't imagine there would be a problem with having one driver run in PDX(A) and another in PDX(B). That's my take on it, at least.

[solonut]

Don...Jim has it right...we have had 2 drivers in the past....just be ready for quick driver changes,new brakes on the car and plenty of spare gas....If you need a gas jug or 2(empty) let me know...

[jim.gandy]

Another good thought for readers of this thread -- PLEASE register early! First, we need to know what kind of turnout to expect, and second, it sure saves everyone a bunch of hassle the morning of the event (same goes for taking advantage of Trials annual tech, if you can). And not to be too grim, but if nobody registers early, the question always arises, "should we cancel?" And we sure don't want to do that. So, sign up as soon as you can -- thanks!

[AlexR]

Follow up question on passengers.

I'm not an instructor. My car has an FIA Roll cage, FIA Seats (both sides) SFI 5 point belts (both sides) and SFI roll cage padding . I have an SFI fire suit , and SFI hans device.

Would i be permitted a passenger ? if so what groups would it be allowed (PDX? CT? Time Trial) ?

If my passenger also wears a fire suite + Hans does that change the answer for any groups?

Unfortunately for me (and the entire rally community) the reno rally may get canceled due to a lack of volunteers & competitors and that would kill off reno rally for the foreseeable future. If that happens my Navigator may still come to down with his suit and hans , is why i'm asking.

thanks

[solonut]

Alex...have hime drive PDX and you drive club trials

as for a passenger...e-mail Jim Gandy as he is the safety steward for the evet

[jim.gandy]

Okay, here's the official policy on passengers at our PDX/CT/TT events.

TT Rules allow passengers to ride with Instructors only for introductory purposes. The passenger must have equipment equal to the driver and must meet age requirements and have SCCA or SCCA weekend membership.

Of course entants are allowed to ride with instructors or instructors are allowed to ride with entrants also in any PDX session and in CT or TT Practice sessions.

All other instances of "more than one person in a car" are not allowed.

[Dean]

Jim beat me to it. Sounds like you should have come to my instructor clinic last year Alex. :) I just do not see any wiggle room in the rules, no matter how much safety equipment the two of you have. They were just not written with your situation in mind.

And I am still a little hesitant to have full roll caged race prepped cars in PDX, but that is another topic.

[van]

And I am still a little hesitant to have full roll caged race prepped cars in PDX, but that is another topic.

I'll bite, why?

[vic]

I'll bite, why?

Other than making you feel invincible I can't see why. The person with the cage might be less likely to get hurt in a side impact. Remember that if you have a full cage most of the crush zones are eliminated in that car, so if do not have the rest of the safety equipment on you are more likely to get hurt. ie: 6 point harness, helmet, Hans. With out the crush zones all that energy is transfered to the occupants. Everything stops but you.

[Dean]

Vic has part of it.

Not that normal PDX drivers can't get overconfident, but the safety equipment might encourage that in some drivers.

And as the rule for safety equipment says it must match for instructor and driver/passenger, I prefer it to basically match between cars as well. If two PDX cars were ever to come together for some unforeseen reason, I would want both to still have all their crumple zones intact and not have one acting as more of a battering ram on the other due to a cage/tube frame, etc...

If you have done that much to your car, TT is the place for you IMHO. Still controlled passing, but similarly prepared cars around you with like minded drivers??

[BillH]

I agree with Vic and Dean for the most part.

I think I'd consider a caged car in PDX, IF the guy/gal had never been on the track before and wanted to do one PDX with an instructor (the same instructor all day, every session) before moving to TT. And IF the new driver totally agreed that this was a day to learn not a day to push the car.
This would be for a driver with a TT Novice permit. I think it would be safer for the student and instructor to do this than to put a first time novice out with the TT drivers.
Just my O.
As always, it's the chief's decision.

BTW, the rule for matching safety equipment, I believe comes from other venues and is not an SCCA rule.
I do however, think it should be.

[solonut]

I agree with Vic and Dean for the most part.


BTW, the rule for matching safety equipment, I believe comes from other venues and is not an SCCA rule.
I do however, think it should be.
Bill, from the 2010 Time Trials rules PDX section 3.1.5

Any seat used by any passenger MUST have a 3 point seat belt, both seat and belts must meet DOT requirements as a minimum. Passenger seats with the same safety equipment as the driver seat are highly recommended.

[BillH]

Bill, from the 2010 Time Trials rules PDX section 3.1.5

Any seat used by any passenger MUST have a 3 point seat belt, both seat and belts must meet DOT requirements as a minimum. Passenger seats with the same safety equipment as the driver seat are highly recommended.



Hey, thanks, Pat, I stand corrected.
I read thru the rules but mostly the tech inspection part. With our rules, theres' always something in a different section, somewhere.

I think I'd change "highly recommended" to "required" though.

[AlexR]

I think the clinic was scheduled during a Rally or Rally cross. otherwise i would have attended.

and I think when i'm on a race track i'm both Pushing and Learning whether caged or not. Course i feel more invincible in the caged car that's for sure!

With the rules as they are for matching safety equipment, Are Instructors allowed the turn down a car for their own safety concerns, even if it passes tech?

as a car with a 7 point belt and FIA seat for the driver, and stock seat with 3point would 'pass' tech but might not make the instructor feel too good.

[BillH]

An instructor can refuse to ride in a car anytime they feel unsafe, they are, after all, volunteers.
That being said, it rarely happens. In 8 years of instructing, I've only climbed out of 2 cars and that was due to the drivers.

As far as the seats/belts, this would be totally under the Chief Driving Instructor and Safety Steward (if it passes Tech). They have the final word.

[newbie911]

Planning on attending now that my schedule changed for that weekend. I've got 2 PDX's under my belt and planning on participating in PDX this time also. Will I be required to have an instructor with me during all sessions, or can I opt out and drive solo during any particular session? TIA

[Dean]

Planning on attending now that my schedule changed for that weekend. I've got 2 PDX's under my belt and planning on participating in PDX this time also. Will I be required to have an instructor with me during all sessions, or can I opt out and drive solo during any particular session? TIAI typically like to have instructors in every car for at least the first session, and all sessions if possible or needed/wanted.

Even though I have over 10,000 miles on track in the left seat, I like having students or other instructors ride with me. I tend to be more self critical and it encourages me to more precise and verbalize my plan for each course segment.

There is always something to learn or something to practice, whether it is a new line, car control technique or just using a bit more of the track and a second set of eyes can help.

That said, making sure any instructor is providing the right amount of feedback and communication is a cooperative process. If you want an instructor to shut up and let you drive for a lap or a session and then provide feedback later, tell them if they don't ask.

[zpeed]

I've been doing PDX since 2006 and still learn something new every time I have instructor sit with me. Usually I have instructor with me in the morning. Then in the afternoon, I do run by myself. Try difference instructor you'll get difference kind of feed back.

Instructor is the one who know that you ready to solo or not.

[BillH]

I typically like to have instructors in every car for at least the first session, and all sessions if possible or needed/wanted.

Even though I have over 10,000 miles on track in the left seat, I like having students or other instructors ride with me. I tend to be more self critical and it encourages me to more precise and verbalize my plan for each course segment.

There is always something to learn or something to practice, whether it is a new line, car control technique or just using a bit more of the track and a second set of eyes can help.

That said, making sure any instructor is providing the right amount of feedback and communication is a cooperative process. If you want an instructor to shut up and let you drive for a lap or a session and then provide feedback later, tell them if they don't ask.

Yea, what Dean says, and it's your responsibility to communicate with the instructor (especially if they're talking too much :lol:).

Keep in mind that with just 2 PDXs, it's fairly easy to fall back into running incorrect lines, braking/turnin points, etc.
There's also nothing wrong with wanting to run by yourself with no one "watching" you.

The PDX rules state:

E. Instructors may allow students to work under less formal observation with the approval of the Chief Driving Instructor. However, this cannot occur until the instructor has observed the participant for at least one full session. This observation is preferred to be in-car if possible, but may occur from an observation point if the car cannot accommodate a passenger safely.

Bottomline is that it's the Chief Driving Instructors decision so, talk to him in the morning before your first session and let your instructor know too, that you'd like some sessions by yourself.

[Skyhorse]

I have found three ways of getting signed off by an instructor


A: drive a very cramped car(my BMW is set up for people of normal height 5’-7” or below) and find the tallest instructor available, the closer his head is to a 45 degree angle the faster he will want out


B: drive something that looks like it was built by a 3rd grader (my 510 is a pretty good example) the more times the instructor looks out the window to see if the wheels are still actually attached to the car the better


C: listen to Dean and your instructor it’s not about how fast you are it’s all about. “Would I feel comfortable being on the track with this person?”


Scott (aren’t you glad I run club trials now) Knauf

[BillH]

I have found three ways of getting signed off by an instructor


A: drive a very cramped car(my BMW is set up for people of normal height 5’-7” or below) and find the tallest instructor available, the closer his head is to a 45 degree angle the faster he will want out


Humm, I might have to rethink getting in your car.:devil::lol::D

Are you doing tech with me Saturday as between runs/work ?

[Skyhorse]

Bill i will have my Scrutineer hat with me on saturday

[newbie911]

Thanks guys. Sounds like I need to communicate better with instructors. And I wasn't neccesarily looking to run solo every time either, just thought of trying it during a session.

[chadalac]

What safety equipment do i need in my Z. Its got T-tops so does it need a roll cage? Do i need a fire suit or can i get away with a kart racing suit? if some one could spell this out to me like you were teaching a retard i would greatly appretiate it. thanks

[BillH]

Chad, Your T-Tops will not require a rollcage. If this car has gone thru AutoX inspection, it should pass tech for PDX.

Here are the Driver Safety requirements:
10.8. REQUIRED DRIVER SAFETY EQUIPMENT
All participants shall wear long sleeves and pants (100% cotton material recommended) and shoes which fully cover the foot at least to the ankle while on course. Helmets which meet Snell M-95 requirements or higher are required.

One thing on the kart suit, it's made with abrasion resistent material and that usually means nylon which melts (my kart suit has melted holes just from brushing up against the pipe).
This stuff makes a kart suit dangerous for use inside a car.

[zpeed]

Thank for the Tech Bill. Now I'm ready for next week. 1st Club Trial in 6 days.

[BillH]

Thank for the Tech Bill. Now I'm ready for next week. 1st Club Trial in 6 days.

No problem, Nat.

8 or 9 guys got their annuals, good day.

[xteraco]

I have a few questions...

1. My tread is a little low, would that be a problem?

2. I'm going to the dmv on Wedsday and I don't know how long it will take to get all of my info together. Will a Vermont registration work?

3. How does insurance and all of that work should I slip off the track? I don't want to call them and ask (they might jack my rates when they hear the word "track" or "race").

[Dean]

1. How low and where? You will likely put the most wear on the shoulders of the tires. I would suggest at least 3/32nds and check them before and after every session and pull off if they feel different during a session.

2. Edit: Read the Rule Pat listed below. Does not have to be registered, but can't be heavily modified is the jist.

3. We are not legal or insurance experts. Please check you policy exclusions and/or contact you agent. PDX is an educational and instruction environment and some companies actually offer discounts for drivers completing driver education events.

CT/TT are timed competition which are often specifically excluded.

[solonut]

According to Dave, We will be running "H" configuration.

[BillH]

I have a few questions...

1. My tread is a little low, would that be a problem?

2. I'm going to the dmv on Wedsday and I don't know how long it will take to get all of my info together. Will a Vermont registration work?
.


To check your tread depth, use a penny. Insert it into your tread with Lincoln's head upsidedown. The distance from the edge of the coin to Lincoln's head is 3/32onds.

The rule for PDX is that the car must be street legal, with a current and valid registration. A registration from any state is fine.

Performance Driving Experience
All automobiles that are street legal and posses a current valid license and registration; and meet
the inspection required by Level 1-TTR section 9.2.1.

[Dean]

The rule for PDX is that the car must be street legal, with a current and valid registration. A registration from any state is fine.

Performance Driving Experience
All automobiles that are street legal and posses a current valid license and registration; and meet the inspection required by Level 1-TTR section 9.2.1.
Oops. Forgot PDX required reg. Edited my post. thanks Bill.

[solonut]

To check your tread depth, use a penny. Insert it into your tread with Lincoln's head upsidedown. The distance from the edge of the coin to Lincoln's head is 3/32onds.

The rule for PDX is that the car must be street legal, with a current and valid registration. A registration from any state is fine.

Performance Driving Experience
All automobiles that are street legal and posses a current valid license and registration; and meet
the inspection required by Level 1-TTR section 9.2.1.

Bill, Deanis correct:eek:....you forgot to read the rest of the paragraph

Drive a vehicle which meets the inspection required in TTR Section 9. Proof of current Annual Tech Inspection in Time Trials or Club Racing shall meet these requirements. Window net and arm restraint requirements are waived for cars that meet the definition of street legal. Street legal is defined as a car which meets local requirements for inspection (if applicable) and the car in question possess CURRENT, VALID license and registration. Vehicles that are not street legal must be eligible for classification in the GCR classes of Showroom Stock, Spec Miata, Touring, or Improved Touring, or the Solo classes of Stock, Street Touring, Street Prepared, or Street Mod. No vehicles that are prepared beyond these allowances shall be permitted to participate. Open wheel cars are not allowed. All cars MUST have a passenger seat with a 3 point seat belt, both meeting DOT requirements as a minimum. Passenger seats with the same safety equipment as the driver seat are highly recommended.

[zpeed]

According to Dave, We will be running "H" configuration.

That new for me. I don't think I run the H yet. :D

[BillH]

Oops. Forgot PDX required reg. Edited my post. thanks Bill.
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I musta been in the sun too long over the holiday, didn't read enough.

Thanks Pat.

[solonut]

I musta been in the sun too long over the holiday, didn't read enough.

Thanks Pat.

No problem Bill...blame it on the sun....I sat in the shade under my EZ-Up:cool:

[BillH]

No problem Bill...blame it on the sun....I sat in the shade under my EZ-Up:cool:

I fell asleep in my chair inbetween techs. I also forgot the sunscreen, duh.

I won't forget the sunscreen this Sat.

[newbie911]

So bummed now as I can't attend the track event! Didn't realize that Carson High graduation is on the same day and I gotta support family, ya know. Next time hopefully!!!