Let the blood flow!!!

[solonut]

I've listened to all the talk, and this was said by the subie drivers bragging that R comp tires will not be an advantage at Stead and AWD with streets will dominate.....Well I looked at the results from round 14 & 15 from last year.....They are right....
Vic & Alex both posted up on the other post to drop the tire factor for the year of 2010 and "run what you brung"...and they both run street tires.

to make a long story short....Lets drop the tire factor for the year....I did some number crunching.....the competition will be very tight.probaly closer than its been in years....

[Dean]

I think it is as much a joke as it is serious.

Unless you have a lot of statistically significant data, modifying it or eliminating the T factor is just guessing. I don't think we had any AWD cars running R compounds. Maybe they would have dominated. Do you want a FWD factor, a RWD factor, FWD w/T, FWD w/R, etc...? Hoosier R Rains might be even faster. What do you do about away events? Make up a factor for each site? You are on a slippery slope of picking winners, not rule making.

Keep the rules consistent as much as possible and let drivers select the equipment that they think will make them the most competitive.

Some will now say, OK, then use the national rules and drop the modifier. That is not consistent in my opinion. Our region has made it clear that a significant number of drivers if not the majority want to run T tires and be competitive and the board has established a consistent rule that has been in place for years to support that.

[solonut]

Dean...just look at the raw time results from event 15 from last Oct...you have door slammers from Brian in the Lotus to Bob in the Vette covered by less than 4 seconds....with the surface at Stead...normal statistics go out the window.
All I'm saying is with the surface beingthe equalizer....drop the T factor for 2010 and I can see as already stated very close racing...

[Dean]

I don't know what you are looking at. I see Karts on R compounds winning over a R compound ASP car by 10%. Not unusual. I see AWD doing well but other T cars not doing so well.

I do not see any AWD cars on R compounds for comparison. Again, they might be even faster.

Go back to round 13, 11 and look at the results. You will see lots of AWD cars near the top there as well.

The AWD group is growing and getting faster and preparing their cars. So what is your point? They should not get the T modifier or just penalize all AWD cars somehow.

I bet the Miata, Porsches and Corevettes on T tires don't think the T modifier should go away looking at the event 15 results.

I hate losing to Karts. I lost a PAX championship to one years ago, but nobody has proposed a rule penalizing them for being well prepared for the conditions and well driven.

[vic]

I look at driving at Stead the same as driving in the rain (light). As a road racer I know that the tire choice is soft with somewhat horizontal grooves to channel water away. I think that a R-compound with tread would be the smart choice for Stead. If the carts run intermediate rain tires there they will unbeatable in pax. If an Awd car does the same they may sneak in there ounce in awhile. IMO

[Kevin M]

The trouble with rain tires at Stead will be heat. True rain R compounds can't handle a 100 degree day. Heck, they probably can't handle 70 degrees in the dry.

[dknv]

The trouble with rain tires at Stead will be heat. True rain R compounds can't handle a 100 degree day. Heck, they probably can't handle 70 degrees in the dry.I didn't know that. I was thinking of trying my 5-7 year old hoosier rains to see what would happen. Maybe they'd fall apart anyway, because they're so old!:lol:

[vic]

The trouble with rain tires at Stead will be heat. True rain R compounds can't handle a 100 degree day. Heck, they probably can't handle 70 degrees in the dry.


You will overheat rains if you are getting traction. Intermediates however will not if you have limited grip. Treaded r-compound might get enough heat to offer the most grip while still spitting out the marbles. I already have street tires otherwise I would give it a shot.

[sperry]

The trouble with rain tires at Stead will be heat. True rain R compounds can't handle a 100 degree day. Heck, they probably can't handle 70 degrees in the dry.
Define "true rain R-comps". Remember that what autocrossers call r-comps really should be called a-comps... as they're actually tires designed specifically for autocross that would get ruined at a race track just as fast as an r-comp rain tire would get ruined at 100F at the race track.

So I'm pretty sure there are r-comp rain tires out there for racing that would be fine for up to 2 minutes at a hot autocross... they're likely just as soft as the "a-comp" tires people are already using, but treaded.

[Kevin M]

Define "true rain R-comps". Remember that what autocrossers call r-comps really should be called a-comps... as they're actually tires designed specifically for autocross that would get ruined at a race track just as fast as an r-comp rain tire would get ruined at 100F at the race track.

So I'm pretty sure there are r-comp rain tires out there for racing that would be fine for up to 2 minutes at a hot autocross... they're likely just as soft as the "a-comp" tires people are already using, but treaded.

That's a good point. I hadn't looked at it like that.

[AlexR]

wonder how these would do on our new surface ? :devil:
http://www.taborrallyteam.com/s505.html

They have a load rating and speed index, but no tread wear rating ... :| They last quite a long time in terms of Rally usage.. so the tread compound isn't Crazy soft.

Might have to play with that one day ...