Heel & Toe

[BillH]

I've been teaching guys & gals to heel & toe for quite a few years.
Here's a very good explaination with pics from the guys over at Pahrump:

http://www.springmountainmotorsports.com/category/driving-tips/

[solonut]

the last heel-toe I did involved law enforcement saying I drove erratic.....and I passed.....

Bill good info....

[Cody]

I've been practicing HT on the street for about a year now. Actually with my size 14's it's side side instead of heel toe but it works.

Now after reading that description, I realize that I've been double clutching, which complicates the process but I was made to understand that double clutching makes the downshift easier on the tranny. Should I try skipping the double clutch and just rev match while heel toe-ing (as they do in the linked article) or is double clutching truly better?

I'm thinking double clutching is going to allow me to get into 1st with less chance of grinding. In MY05 1st gear was given an extra synchro cone on WRX's but I have an 03. :unamused:

[Kevin M]

Double clutch if you have the time. Heel-toe is just so you can double clutch and/or revmatch under braking.

[Cody]

Okay, that's what I thought. When downshifting, I'll continue with the double clutch/rev match (while braking if needed) when there's time and settle for a rev match (while braking if needed) when there isn't.

[S2kreno]

I thought with today's decent synchros you didn't need to go through this any more. And I dare any one of you (especially Cody) to try that move with 3 inch heels on! And if I can beat you you'd have to shave your legs!

[Cody]

You do in my car if you want to get into 1st without slowing more than necessary to make the turn. I have the recomended Redline Shockproof LW fluid too.

They make heels in 14? I'd hate to meet the lady who needs them. :eek:

[Dean]

There are a wide range of opinions on the relative merits of heal-toe and/or double clutching modern transmissions.

I honestly think it is one of the last skills a new performance driver should learn. If you can't reliably put the car where you want it lap after lap, especially at turn in, adding H-T just complicates an already hectic point on the track.

Unless you car has known gearbox problems, focusing on one smooth standard 2 pedal, 2 footed downshift under braking where it has little effect on the balance of the car is a much better use of time.

Whether HT, late braking, or cheating away fro the outside of the track at turn in, more folks lose more time by messing up corner entry than anywhere else on the track. being fast out is far more important than fast in, and a messed up entry will often mess up the entire corner and thus the whole next straight.

When you do decide to learn H-T, the street is definitely the place to practice. when it is safe, do so at every off-ramp and stop light/sign. The track at teh end of a long straight is not where you want to slip off the brake...

[Kevin M]

I agree you should learn the basics of heel-toe on the street, but I disagree that all but the most precise drivers should use it. No matter what car you drive, you wear your synchros less by properly revmatching your shifts, and I can't think of a single person who thinks burning up a synchro is a perfectly acceptable cost for gaining a tenth or two.

[Cody]

Does rev matching reduce synchro wear? I thought rev matching was only good for reducing the shock to the drivetrain (and resulting upsetting of the chassis) while double clutching has that benefit and also saves the synchros.

[Dean]

I believe Cody is right. Double clutch is the only thing that saves synchros. H-T juste reduces drive train shock which can also be mitigated by smooth shifter and clutch movememnts.

I didn't say most precise drivers... If you can't reliably put your car in the right place on the track, it is one more highly complicated ting to think about at one of teh most critical place on the track.

Do you honestly know somebody who downshifts smoothly that has actually burned up a syncho from not heal-toeing on a modern transmission?

I didn't with my mostly track dedicated notoriously weak WRX 5MT, but I shift smoothly. I am a proficient H-T driver, but seldom do it, especially with a student in the car which is most of the time.

A properly lubricated syncho and an appropriately late smooth shift should result in minimal wear on the sychros.

If you can't shift smoothly, nothing will save your transmission.

[BillH]

Well, here we go. Double clutching does zip, zilch, nada as far as saving anything in the trans. Revmatching will help the snycros because it gets the inner and outer syncro rings to a close to equal speed. But, more importantly, it reduces the load on the syncros when either the engine or wheel speed is playing catchup.
Dean, yes, I've heard of a few drivers burning up syncros by not revmatching and they reported that the problem went away after a rebuild and doing H&T.

That being said, H&T is not about being nice to your trans, it's about being smooth on or just before corner entry. I totally agree with Dean that the line and corner entry at the same point lap after lap is more important. It really depends on the driver, some may get it in 4 events, some advanced drivers never get it, the correct line is everything at the track.

The whole purpose of H&T is to match the rear wheel speed to the engine/gear combo so that the rear wheels have no extra effect on braking and chassis set just before turnin. Correctly done, the chassis doesn't even know that a downshift has taken place. Smooth is faster.

Yep, practice on the street. Do the 6-5, 5-4 and maybe 4-3 downshifts until you get comfortable, it's much easier in the higher gears.

I H&T all the time on the street only because I do it without thinking about it.
I also revmatch every downshift even if I'm not on the brakes.

[Dean]

I think Bill and I are mostly on the same page, but we I think we have a confusion of terms or something.

I am saying H-T is one clutch/blip/declutch, double whatever is two of those. Rev matching is often misused for both and thus causes quite a bit of confusion.

The synchros are effectively between the input and output shaft, so only double declutching, which is probably a better term, has any effect on synchros. Heal-Toe only changes the speed of the engine and flywheel relative to the wheels and output shaft and has no effect on the input shaft, and thus does nothing for the synchros.

Synchros only come into play as the shifter is moved and the differential between the input and output shafts has to be taken up by the synchros or preferably the lubricant around the synchros. Shifting too fast forces the metal to do the work instead of the lubricant which is what causes wear and noise.

H-T can really only reduce clutch wear.

Unless you start double declutching on your upshifts, even double declutching on downshifts only reduces synchro wear 1/2 the time! :)

Move the shifter slowly and smoothly if you want to save synchros, upshifting and downshifting...

If done smoothly, clutching and declutching especially under braking should have little if any effect on weight transfer and is a useful skill in general for a street car.

H-T and double declutching are advanced skills that are largely unnecessary on modern transmissions if the driver has good control of his right hand and left foot. I am not saying people should not learn them, only that if the driver does not have good control over their car at corner entry, adding additional complexity to the process is probably not a good idea.

[Cody]

I feel like I spent over a year HTing on the street just so I can get the car into 1st as I come into swing around a pin cone without grinding 1st and without upsetting the chassis letting out the clutch. I'm not backing out now. :disco:

[Kevin M]

I think Bill and I are mostly on the same page, but we I think we have a confusion of terms or something.

I am saying H-T is one clutch/blip/declutch, double whatever is two of those. Rev matching is often misused for both and thus causes quite a bit of confusion.

The synchros are effectively between the input and output shaft, so only double declutching, which is probably a better term, has any effect on synchros. Heal-Toe only changes the speed of the engine and flywheel relative to the wheels and output shaft and has no effect on the input shaft, and thus does nothing for the synchros.

Synchros only come into play as the shifter is moved and the differential between the input and output shafts has to be taken up by the synchros or preferably the lubricant around the synchros. Shifting too fast forces the metal to do the work instead of the lubricant which is what causes wear and noise.

H-T can really only reduce clutch wear.

Unless you start double declutching on your upshifts, even double declutching on downshifts only reduces synchro wear 1/2 the time! :)

Move the shifter slowly and smoothly if you want to save synchros, upshifting and downshifting...

If done smoothly, clutching and declutching especially under braking should have little if any effect on weight transfer and is a useful skill in general for a street car.

H-T and double declutching are advanced skills that are largely unnecessary on modern transmissions if the driver has good control of his right hand and left foot. I am not saying people should not learn them, only that if the driver does not have good control over their car at corner entry, adding additional complexity to the process is probably not a good idea.

Double declutching (which is the correct term for what we're talking about) relieves stress on bearings as well as reduces shock loads to gears and upsets the car less. Rev matching is what you're trying to accomplish with this process. The difference between rev-matching (H-T is the technique for rev matching, nothing more) and double declutching is that the former only matches the flywheel speed to wheels speed, while the latter matches flywheel and input shaft speeds to wheel speed.

As for upshifts, how do you "rev match" an upshift? If you are smooth, you are rev-matching, because you're letting the negine speed fall just the right amount to match the new gear at that particular wheel speed.

[Dean]

As for upshifts, how do you "rev match" an upshift? If you are smooth, you are rev-matching, because you're letting the negine speed fall just the right amount to match the new gear at that particular wheel speed.Stop using rev match without saying what you are matching revolutions of.

Unless you magically know at what rate your input shaft slows down, and pause in neutral until it matches the output shaft, the synchros are still doing work. Double declutching an upshift would be exactly the same process as downshifting. Nobody does it beacuse it would slow down acceleration.

[newbie911]

Now I'm thoroughly confused, thanks guys! :lol: