anthing come from yesterday's emergency meeting?

[S2kreno]

enquiring minds want to know

[solonut]

enquiring minds want to know


it is very lose surface...In my low hp miata, I grabbed 2nd and went sideways...and the surface became real sandy.....as for your post....I just bit my tongue.....

[S2kreno]

well you started it with the 6 time kindergarten failure and the 20 foot pole thingie. i'm a congenital smartass, can't help it......was it fun going sideways? there was a movie called that....

[solonut]

I'm tired....spent 9 hours at the track today......drifting was fun

[Kevin M]

What about the alternative areas of the airfield that were mentioned to the Board last weekend? Did anybody check those out?

[jim.gandy]

Patience...

Wes and I measured the "paddock" area, and we're now checking the Solo rules to see if there's any hope of having a course there. Anybody interested should check out what the rulebook says about courses that will be used by karts.

So far, airport management has not come up with any other spots on the airport we might use. We're still hopeful.

I checked the new baseball stadium -- no surface parking lot.

I checked Park Lane Mall -- it's a demolition site, they're still ripping things up, including areas of pavement. Doesn't look promising to me at this point.

The north lot at the Livestock Events Center is still there, just as it was used by Reno Region back in the 80s and 90s. There are notorious problems -- drainage swales running the full length of the lot that seriously compromise course design, lots of light poles, houses across the street. Some years back, the management there flatly told us that spring, summer and fall were too busy there, but we might get a mid-winter date if we wanted one. Perhaps there's new management now? The lot was looking pretty unused Saturday. I'd encourage everyone to drive by there and take a hard look.

We're pursuing a lead developed by Vic Chalk -- there may be something in Truckee. Stay tuned. And, keep looking!

[Bryannelsonlaw]

Any possibility of using Reno Fernley?

[AlexR]

Yes/No Will the Stead airport allow us let us run knowing that we will probably be damaging their weather seal?

Yes/No Will Stead hold the reno SCCA liable for "damages" to their weather seal (assuming yes to #1)


While at the Sac autoX on sunday i was talking about the pavement conditions and one of the members said this happened to a different site he ran @ in oakland. and their answer was to just keep running events until the surface got better. He said the first 2 weekends were really bad, but shorter after that the pavement got good again.

Assuming the answer to my above questions are Yes, and No respectively
We could run 2 weekends that are not for points. let people who are not concerned about their paint come out and 'fix' the surface for everyone else. I've been driving a lot of Rally crosses and i could help design a safe course for the lower traction.

If its Yes and Yes ... :| how much did the chip seal cost ?

[sperry]

How much would it cost to properly repave (or roll, or reseal or whatever makes the surface raceable) the normal Stead site? Would Stead consider repaving if RenoSCCA chips in to subsidize the cost?

Maybe it's not the smartest way to spend the club's money with all the impending economic doom about, but if we have nowhere to race, what's the point of the club at all? Plus, how nice would 13 acres (or whatever it is out there) of new grippy asphalt be! :cool:

[dsmith]

We should see if we can get B J Sullivan to go out and take a look at it. He raced with us for a few seasons so he knows what is involved, and he owns Clark & Sullivan construction so he also knows paving.

["A" Stocker]

a good guess 3/4 of a million dollars or better--13 acres is alot of space to throw down asphalt on. Call the Granite Asphalt plant and ask them how much asphalt it would take to cover 13 acres 4" - 6" thick and how much that cost's then triple that number for labor and you might be close...Last time I checked here in Sacramento it was over a million dollars to pave 10 acres...

[stevewaclo]

Couldn't help notice that when I scrubbed my foot back and forth, the surface just seemed to keep breaking up into smaller pieces...as if there was no bottom, short of bed rock. Hope I was wrong. The concern of course, is that additional traffic will simply build more berms and piles of detritus. How about us paying for a few passes by an industrial strength street sweeper? Or 50 volunteers, shoulder to shoulder with push brooms and wheel barrows? Let's see, @ 2' per broom, that would be a 100' swath and sweepimg at 2 miles per hour over a 14 acre area...someone want to jump in and do the math? Since the surface is coming up anyway, all we would be doing is accelerating the process.

Also, FYI: Chipseal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Regarding paint damage, blue painters tape comes in a 3" roll and should do a decent job of protection. Have already seen it being used out there by folks who have cars worthy of concern (as opposed to clapped out '87 Alfas).

Beginning to become pretty apparent that Stead (or Reno/Fernley) are shaping up to be our primary (only?) options. Suggest we concentrate on
making do with the cards we've been dealt.

[sperry]

a good guess 3/4 of a million dollars or better--13 acres is alot of space to throw down asphalt on. Call the Granite Asphalt plant and ask them how much asphalt it would take to cover 13 acres 4" - 6" thick and how much that cost's then triple that number for labor and you might be close...Last time I checked here in Sacramento it was over a million dollars to pave 10 acres...
A $1M short-order paving job? Sounds like a shovel-ready bailout project to me. Someone call the president!

But seriously, that's way more (by like $600,000) than I thought something like that would cost. I guess the area is deceivingly large, since we tend to drive a whole lap around the place in only 40 seconds is seems smaller.

But resealing it and actually steamrolling the chip-seal might make all the difference. So it's not actually repaving the place, just making sure that the coating that goes down is more than just a layer of gravel.

[newbie911]

Sorry for jumping in so late here, but I have knowledge on "re-surfacing" and paving. If you want/need any help with estimating or assessing new or existing conditions, let me know and give me any/all specifics you have!

[dknv]

Even if we weren't held liable for damages, and even if I had a beater car that I could run without worry about paint or other damages -- I would not run autox on that surface. (Maybe a drift event, though ;).)

From what I experienced on my 2 rounds of trying to drive the circle, you could not attack a course in any way without losing control. Not only is this no fun from a competitive standpoint (fighting to maintain control vs. driving to improve), but the worry would always be in my mind that I would spin and hit someone. And I would never be a course worker in those conditions, having seen course workers who ran and slipped on gravel and fell, with bloody consequences.

[Dean]

I really question if the sealer that was put down did what it was supposed to. It sounds like instead of protecting/sealing the surface it broke down the binding agents in the existing surface or trapped water in/under it which froze and further broke up the surface.

It would be great if Dean and/or one of our other asphalt knowledgeable folks would take a look? Maybe the airport has some recourse with the company that did the job?

The same thing did not happen when they sealed it a few years back.

[solonut]

here ia a pic I took after the test....you can see the build up just off libe and between the tire tracks....

[newbie911]

Sure, I can jump in and help out if you want? Does anyone know exactly what "process" the airport did last fall to the existing surface (I've heard serveral different terms being used)? Also, what was the airport's intent for this process and do they have any appetite to remedy the current situation (or are they okay with the results they're getting)?

[Lysle]

Again, it looked like a slurry seal to me. I believe Alpine county tried it once, and it was completely taken off by snowplows that winter.

Maybe you can correct me if I’m wrong Dean, but there really isn’t any chemical bonding in a slurry seal causing it to keep coming up until it's all gone basically. I think it’s just aggregate in a mixture of oil and water with a few other additives?

[newbie911]

Without seeing the surface in person, and not knowing what the actual process was that was done out there last fall, I'm going to make some assumptions. I highly doubt it was a "slurry seal" as a slurry seal is simply sand and oil pre-mix that is sprayed onto the surface from a truck. This process is basically used for light applications and for light use. It was probably a "chip seal" that was done instead. This is where a small crushed rock, less than 1/2" in size (usually 3/8") with fractured faces (rough edges, not round or smooth), is laid (or swept out) on top of a "tack coat" (oil) and rolled in to embed the rock. This is used on roads, etc., and has a good wear record when done properly. In this case of early failure, one of two things probably happened, not enough oil was used in the process, or too much rock was laid out for the physical area to promote good adhesion for all the rock. A possible "fix" for this scenario would be to re-apply or re-do the chip seal, making sure more oil is used and/or less rock for the correct application. This, of course, would be done after the area is swept and prepped properly. Hope this helps!

[solonut]

Dean.....its slurry seal per your discription...what was coming up is sandy....not small rock....Pat

[newbie911]

Slurry seal is usually only used for sealing driveways and small parking lots, etc. I'm shocked they would use that process at an airport! Still sounds like they didn't use enough oil and would need a re-do. But I seriously doubt a slurry seal (it could be a sand seal too - same materials, just different layment procedure) would hold up out there in those conditions of use??? Were they only looking for a temporary seal?

["A" Stocker]

the picture looks like chip seal
an easy way to find out, Pat when you ran did it sound like a million BB's hitting your car, if so it was chip seal

[vic]

It is a slurry seal. The same thing was done in my sub-division and my drieway a few years ago. It has a course sand in it ( 1/8 in. minus or so) and the larger stuff sits near the top. This stuff turns up and comes loose when driven on and eventually leaves a durable grippy surface. The more traffic the faster this will happen. Snow plows really accelerate this process. In my driveway we put a seal coat over it and it helped alot.

[BillH]

Interesting.

We used a slurry seal across the way on the kart track at least 2 times that I can remember. It never came up. It was slippery for the first couple of races until it was worn in. But, we did use a rotary sweeper on the track before the slurry went down.

[Bentley]

I am new to the Reno region but as I was reading this I was thinking about all the big open places we could run some auto x events and one place came to mind really fast. The Mt. Rose ski area parking lot and the reason I bring it up is I have see the Nevada Highway Patrol running driving schools there on multiple occasions.... I also know that Heavenly ski area has a big parking lot as well as Boreal but idk about its condition also with no obstructions. What are the requirements for the paved area in question?

Thanks

[S2kreno]

Rose! Love it.

[Cody]

Oh man, didn't notice the 2009 post dates and thought this thread sounded eerily familiar. :oops:

[Bentley]

I know I resurrected this one from the dead but reading it just got me to thinking about all the other places we could run auto x.

[dknv]

Eric,
Welcome to the renoscca forum. Glad to see people are still keeping their eyes open for possibilities.

I remember that someone(s) looked at Mt. Rose a year or two ago, but I don't remember who that was or what the outcome was - other than there was something that wouldn't work for us. And while we did autox at Boreal about 6 years ago, for the past couple of summers their lot was used by CalTrans for I-80 construction.

But keep on keeping your eyes open for possibilities!