Auto-x/SoloII no fun

[newbie911]

I'm not sure if this is the right place for this thread (Mods please move to appropriate place if needed) but I would like to get some input/insight to how I might enjoy Auto-x/SoloII more. I've only been to a handful of events over the last few years with various DD cars since intro into it. But the last couple of times I found it wasn't very enjoyable overall. And after my first PDX last year, I'm thinking it will be even less enjoyable now (I'm hooked on PDX and thinking of doing just those this year). Sorry if a long rant, just looking for a little help possibly from the "veterans" on here. Maybe I should just concentrate on PDX's as I find the fun factor much higher. It would be nice to get out more than 3x this year though (but don't want to plan on every weekend either). :(

[S2kreno]

It would be helpful if you stated what you found "not fun" or "less fun" about auto-x. I find that it's a place to push a little harder and be a little braver because if -- oops I mean WHEN I did that at PDX my car got a big owie. Otherwise if you need more challenge try running the course in reverse :)

[newbie911]

Yes, identifying "issues" I have would probably help, ha! It's not the challenge (or lack of), that's for sure. More along the lines of:

Lack of seat time per event and per time/effort (work) involved

Amount of time involved (all day) and time working course per fun involved

Lack of social interaction at event once started (majority seem to be very intense with there own racing/car/situation, mostly "hard-core" racers out there or am I wrong/ bad day last time I was out???)

Or is it just me/not my thing??? I don't mean to offend anyone either, just trying to improve my own personal experience to possibly stay into it.

[Dean]

Solo is cheap and can be very social. Chatting in grid and many go eat and BS after events.

Come hang out with the Subaru folks. :) we have basically the same engine and drive train. :)

We also hang out at the Tamarack Junction every Thursday night (http://www.seccs.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1418) at 7:00 and get food in their sports bar after BSing in the back parking lot for a while. I bring my Audi and we have Jeeps, Cadillac, Evos, etc... so all are welcome.

You actually only have to be out for a 1/2 day at Solo.

Solo is more competitive and allows you to actually push the car to and beyond the limits. It is a real challenge to be fast, precise, smooth much less competitive.

PDX happens at higher speeds, but much lower number of inputs per minute.

You can "feel" like you are good at PDX very easily. After all, you are going faster. To feel good at Solo, you actually have to spend the time to get good as you have real competitors to compare yourself to. making hundreds of driving inputs in 60 seconds is difficult, but very challenging.

It is very humbling when a good driver can get in your car and beat your best time in just a run or two, but also very educational.

It also might help to get some solo coaching. Come out to the school, or at a normal event, find me or one of the other instructors and get them to ride with you and give you some pointers.

Heck, I'd be happy to co-drive and coach with you if you want. I've driven a couple 996s, but the car really isn't important

The opportunity to walk the course in solo allows you to plan your runs. Walking with a real focus on how you are going to drive the course rather than just to find or see the course is a big part of it. I often give guided course walks.

In the end, they are both fun, but very different. If you have a SO, or family, getting them involved can also make it more enjoyable. Get them to the school if you do.

[nmhansen]

Personally, I do find Solo more fun than PDX, for a lot of the reasons Dean described.

The main reason for me, though, is the fact that auto-x is actually competitive. PDX is just an experience. And although it offers higher speeds and more seat time, its not as fun for me because there is no actual competition. But, for the reasons above (seat time & higher speeds) I can see why it appeals to other people more.

There is the social factor, and I just know more people out at solo than PDX. And to be fair, PDX kind of scares me because I know I can get into trouble out there without a cage and the other necessary safety gear.

["A" Stocker]

Dean,
I've been doing this on and off for over 20 yrs and in all that time. I've seen alot more people who Auto-X make way better Road Racer's, PDX'rs than the other way around. Auto-X teaches you the low speed stuff ie; going into and out of the turns, car control and most of all your limits at the time. If you want to be a better PDX'r, keep Auto-Xing and by all means talk to people--no matter how intense they look, I've never seen any Auto-X'r blow you off--BUT I've seen alot of Road Racers do it. Auto-X'rs are the friendliest people you will ever meet. Take time out to come to the Monthly meetings, there you can meet the Board members and ask the really important questions--Like who's buying the beer?????
You don't give up on Us--We won't give up on you.... See you at the Auto-X Events...

[MattR]

You can "feel" like you are good at PDX very easily. After all, you are going faster. To feel good at Solo, you actually have to spend the time to get good as you have real competitors to compare yourself to. making hundreds of driving inputs in 60 seconds is difficult, but very challenging.

It is very humbling when a good driver can get in your car and beat your best time in just a run or two, but also very educational.




Agree with you 100% Dean, no matter how good I feel on a given day, there's always someone faster....

Dean's a good teacher, and he needs a car to drive. I see a match!:lol:

[dknv]

Hi Dean Morton,
I met you a few years ago when I was working at registration, and you were driving a different car.

Do I remember correctly that you ran in the Novice class last year?

For me, a good amount of the fun factor comes from being in competition with others, which comes with competing in a class. So maybe in 2009 you'll want to consider trying class competition. And since classes run in the same run groups, you will typically see the same people from event to event, which lends itself to a higher degree of social interaction.

In terms of seat time to work/effort ratio, for me it's a reasonable tradeoff. In Solo the cost is comparatively low ($25) which is offset by the fact that I complete a work assignment during one run group. In PDX or other track event formats, while the seat time is higher, the cost and risk is also higher. However -- if you find that you prefer driving your car on a track instead of around cones -- that's OK! Some people like chocolate, some like vanilla, some like them both, and it's ok for you to have a personal preference.

If I were you, though - I'd take Dean Benz up on his offer! Hope to see you out at Stead, or Reno-Fernley, this year.
-Debbie

[newbie911]

Thanks for all the input! A couple of thoughts I have and more info to share from me.

I have done a couple of the driving schools (and I must say, they've improved in quality of instruction).

I've attended some of the meetings as well, trying to do what I can to get to know others and "fit in" more (I'm shy though and realize I need to work more on my social skills too - ha!).

I remember being "told/suggested" to do as many runs as possible (fun runs), so I was out there all day so I could run both sessions, and ultimately, working both sessions, for more seat time.

And it was mentioned to do novice and no time runs just to experience it and gain more seat time/knowledge (I struggled with that - lack of competition).

I would agree with some above comments about the difficulty in auto-x vs. PDX, and the “safety” feeling of no cage, etc. at high speeds on the big track (although the speed factor equates to the fun factor as well for me).

PDX, I could move up to the next level for more competition/challenge. Auto-x, could run for time, although I have to run ASP class with my current car and we all know I’ll get killed – ha! Is that much fun?

Another thought is it seems that auto-x is more expensive to me in that tire wear for me is much greater at auto-x and driving schools in my current car vs. PDX, even though PDX costs more upfront (maybe that’s just me?).

Sorry again for the long rant and I’d like to hear more thoughts from you all. And Dean, I may take you up on your offer(s) ….. now if I could just afford those rear tires all the time!

[nmhansen]

PDX, I could move up to the next level for more competition/challenge. Auto-x, could run for time, although I have to run ASP class with my current car and we all know I’ll get killed – ha! Is that much fun?

And that can be some of the problem with Auto-x (in general). If you buy a very fast car for fun, then you unfortunately are put into a class where you will take years to be competitive. Auto-x almost encourages to you to buy a slower car to start out with (which is completely backwards for people like us), and become competitive at slower speeds first before building up to the ASP cars.

Auto-x seems like one of the few types of racing where having a faster car can actually be a detriment.

[Dean]

I agree on tire wear. Solo has them at their limits and beyond a large percent of the brief time they are running. PDX is much easier on them.

I don't quite trust myself with CT/TT yet. I am a good driver, but am afraid I would try to go faster rather than going smoother which is how oopses happen. I see it all the time from the right seat at PDXs when a driver is just trying to catch a car infront of them instead of driving their own car better. I will likely wait until I have a cage and do TT rather than being tempted by CT.

Forget getting your butt kicked in ASP. You could run RNP both halves of the day.

Compare your times to people you would like to be faster than :) or who have similar experience. Or come compete for Tier 2 in SM :)

[newbie911]

And that can be some of the problem with Auto-x (in general). If you buy a very fast car for fun, then you unfortunately are put into a class where you will take years to be competitive. Auto-x almost encourages to you to buy a slower car to start out with (which is completely backwards for people like us), and become competitive at slower speeds first before building up to the ASP cars.

Auto-x seems like one of the few types of racing where having a faster car can actually be a detriment.

Totally agree that the "smaller/less HP/ less performance oriented vehicles" (is that PC enough :D) have a big atvantage at auto-x, especially in the $$ department to run them!

[newbie911]

I agree on tire wear. Solo has them at their limits and beyond a large percent of the brief time they are running. PDX is much easier on them.

I don't quite trust myself with CT/TT yet. I am a good driver, but am afraid I would try to go faster rather than going smoother which is how oopses happen. I see it all the time from the right seat at PDXs when a driver is just trying to catch a car infront of them instead of driving their own car better. I will likely wait until I have a cage and do TT rather than being tempted by CT.

Forget getting your butt kicked in ASP. You could run RNP both halves of the day.

Compare your times to people you would like to be faster than :) or who have similar experience. Or come compete for Tier 2 in SM :)

Thank you for re-affirming my logic on tire wear, wasn't sure if correct in my thinking. And I could see getting into trouble with the high speed stuff (CT/TT) if not disciplined enough too. Still not sure if RNP would have enough "fun factor" for me, just comparing times, but maybe give it another shot.

What is "Tier 2 in SM" all about?

[k-dogg39]

What is "Tier 2 in SM" all about?

Getting beat up by Tier 1 SM Sti's :lol: I know it well...

But it is still fun trying to catch them!

[S2kreno]

Auto-x seems like one of the few types of racing where having a faster car can actually be a detriment.

Jeez, I thought it was having a green car that was the detriment. :eek:

[solonut]

Jeez, I thought it was having a green car that was the detriment. :eek:
No Gina...it just makes it easier to find you out in the desert:P

Dean...If you dont want to beat up the Porsche doing auto-x....check with some of the members about co-driving with them....you split the car expenses & if you hook up with a top notch driver you can also learn alot....

the main thing about auto-x is it teaches car control at an excellerated leaning curve....which will translate to your PDX. Feel free to come and talk to me....if i'm busy I'll put you to work;) helping with the kart....



also the best way to meet everyone is chair an event....

["A" Stocker]

Here's an easy way to look at it:

Cone marks wash off if you spin the car at an Auto-X
Rocks and such don't wash off if you happen to take a detour through the Nevada Desert at a PDX.
If your worried about tire wear--buy BFG R1's they will last forever--trust me I know...

[S2kreno]

Neck surgery lasts forever :) But I still love PDX!!!

[zpeed]

After I try PDX I did not go back to auto-x. For me it's more fun on the track for 20 min.

[newbie911]

I'm thinking at this point to try and scrape up a set of "track" wheels/tires and try to do both this year if I can find the money - ha! I think I'll try some of the suggestions and give Auto-x another go. And I'll definitely stick with the PDX for now as I'm hooked on it (for now)!

Thanks for all the comments/suggestions and keep'em coming please.

[BillH]

Sounds to me like you ought to give Auto-X another try. I went out to the last one in Stead just to hang out, yea the guys & gals are intense about their cars but you have to go up and make the contact. You'll find that they'll always talk to you. They just have tunnelvision unless someone says hello. Same thing at the PDX and RoadRaces.

You also have to determine what bang for the buck you're looking for. Auto-X runs go by pretty quick but so do drag races. At least you get a bunch of runs in Auto-X.

As far as the amount of time working the course vs the amount of fun, remember that there's a bunch of volunteers out there all day working for free. If you didn't work your shift on the course, your entry fees would have to go up drastically to pay for course workers. Same at the PDXs, I work them and don't even get on the track unless I instruct.

In the end, it's all about how you want to spend your disposible income and what makes you grin with your helmit on.

["A" Stocker]

Sounds to me like you ought to give Auto-X another try. I went out to the last one in Stead just to hang out, yea the guys & gals are intense about their cars but you have to go up and make the contact. You'll find that they'll always talk to you. They just have tunnelvision unless someone says hello. Same thing at the PDX and RoadRaces.

You also have to determine what bang for the buck you're looking for. Auto-X runs go by pretty quick but so do drag races. At least you get a bunch of runs in Auto-X.

As far as the amount of time working the course vs the amount of fun, remember that there's a bunch of volunteers out there all day working for free. If you didn't work your shift on the course, your entry fees would have to go up drastically to pay for course workers. Same at the PDXs, I work them and don't even get on the track unless I instruct.

In the end, it's all about how you want to spend your disposible income and what makes you grin with your helmit on.


Couldn't have been said better--totally agree

[Dave Deborde]

Dean,

I have also participated in Solo and Track events and must agree that most people that start in Solo transition to track much more quickly than the other way around but there are hundreds of racers that have never autocrossed.

I would add that the risk in PDX is not as bad as some suggest. At Reno-Fernley Raceway the runoff area is well groomed. We have had many spins without damage (except to the drivers egos). In the cases where there was damage it was the result of a loss of concentration and the drivers driving way off the track. Again, that is not the norm at our events.

If you like the competitive aspects then you might want to consider giving Club Trials a try.

The most important thing is that you come out and have FUN. We welcome you at any of the venues we offer and just want you to keep coming back!!

Dave

[BillH]

Dean,

I would add that the risk in PDX is not as bad as some suggest. At Reno-Fernley Raceway the runoff area is well groomed. We have had many spins without damage (except to the drivers egos). In the cases where there was damage it was the result of a loss of concentration and the drivers driving way off the track. Again, that is not the norm at our events.
Dave

Dave's correct. I've been instructing at RFR since they opened in the driving school and at non-SCCA PDXs. Damage to the cars is very rare.

[Cody]

RE: tires are expensive. You could pick up some Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Specs, Falken Azenis RT615's, or for a real tight budget, Hankook Ventus RS2's. We're very fortunate to have a tire pax in Reno. :)

[newbie911]

Thanks guys! I'll see what I can work out between now and spring and try to do both events again and take it from there. I'll try to make the march meeting and do the other "things" to help the socail aspect too!

[solonut]

Dean we will have a booth at the Sports & RV show this weekend at the Reno convention center...then on march 21st we will have a volunteer training day @ Reno-Fernley raceway....see ya soon ....Pat

[newbie911]

Okay, so thinking more about Auto-x, what are all the choices/options I have to run my car in? I know with the "few" mods to my car, I was told ASP is one option, RNP (for just time) is another, someone mentioned tier II in SM (???), and another mentioned a "tire pax" (???). What other "classes" could I legally participate in, and what are some of these classes/what vehicles would I compete against?

[zpeed]

The best thing is RNP (Run No Points) to learn. After the morning session you can also run RNP in the afternoon too. I think 996 is in A-Stock class. So you can compare your time to them or just try to beat your own times. I usually compare my time to one of the fast driver. Their time always consistance (same driver w/ same car). Every time I know that he is about 5 seconds faster than me in 50-60 second run. If I run only 4 second slower than him, I'm doing good that day.

Try to ask another 996/911 owners what tire pressure do they run in what kind of tires. Most of them will give you advice about basic 80%. Got to keep that last secret 20% for the win. It's more fun to beat a fast driver than a slow beginner.

[newbie911]

The best thing is RNP (Run No Points) to learn. After the morning session you can also run RNP in the afternoon too. I think 996 is in A-Stock class. So you can compare your time to them or just try to beat your own times. I usually compare my time to one of the fast driver. Their time always consistance (same driver w/ same car). Every time I know that he is about 5 seconds faster than me in 50-60 second run. If I run only 4 second slower than him, I'm doing good that day.

Try to ask another 996/911 owners what tire pressure do they run in what kind of tires. Most of them will give you advice about basic 80%. Got to keep that last secret 20% for the win. It's more fun to beat a fast driver than a slow beginner.

I've done the RNP before but no one to compare times to with a similar car. This was part of the problem of "not much fun" factor! Also, my car has a couple of mods, so I'm suppose to be in ASP. I usually don't see any 996's out at Auto-x either. I've got some good info from some 996 forum sights for set-up, etc though. This is why I was asking about some of the other available "classes" to possibly compete in for more of a "fun factor"!

[Cody]

Depending on how many events you attended last year, you may want to consider Novice class (again?). But I'd run ASP if that's the class your car fits into in it's current state. Even if nobody else is in that class, it's still fun to see how you place in pax. :) For example, if you place in the bottom quarter of pax the first event and proceed to the 3rd quarter on the 2nd event, you know you're improving a lot! And as Nat points out, you'll find somebody (or more likely many people) in your rungroup to compare times to.

[Mark Sipe]

well I guess you don't have to worry about getting your butt kicked at a PDX by a car with half the power and 1/4 the cost ... :devil: