Cam Adjustments

[Braydog]

I've been playing around with adjusting my cams. I'm at a -3/+1 right now but where I had a "head pinned against the seat" feeling all the way up to 8k rpm before, I seem to lose alot of top end power with this setting. I then messed with a cookie cutter setting -3/-3 and I gained a ton of low end power, but it seemed to taper off about 6k. I am trying to get these dialed in now that I have added aftermarket valves, springs, and retainers, but I cant seem to get it in right.

Anybody have any suggestions on some good cam settings? I am not concerned with my idle at all, as long as I'm not stalling. You pretty much throw your stock idle out the window when you install these things anyways.

A general rule of thumb is the more "lopey" it is, the more mid/top end power you will have, as long as the lopiness doesnt cause a low rpm stall. It just doesnt seem to be the case with me. My lopiness is to the point of old timers down at hot august nights swearing I have a V8, and calling me a liar when I say its a 4cyl. So I know I'm in the zone by the standards of that theory.

I do not care what it sounds like, just want my wide band of power back.

Any help is appreciated.

[Braydog]

In addition, the positive thing I am seeing with the -3/-3 setting is that my engine temps are staying alot cooler. I guess common sense dictates that. Retard intake by 3, more air into intake, more air = cooler temps. Amazing....

[sperry]

Um, how about putting it back where it was originally if that gave you a "head pinned against the seat" feeling across the entire power band?

[Braydog]

Cmon maaan...you gotta give me more credit than that. If I knew what that setting was, I would have done exactly that. The thing is the company I had install my valves, springs, etc. is a really....lazy company. They did not note what my setting where, nor did they restore the setting to that.

Now I'm sure you'll reply with "Why did you have that company do your work then?"

My only answer to you is...Lesson Learned. :|

[Cody]

Shoulda bought a Subaru?

[Braydog]

Then I'd just be dealing with the problem of my motor wearing an intercooler for a hat, or the 13 miles of piping between the air filter and the intake manifold :P

I'll just bring my tools out tomorrow and adjust it between runs i guess.

[Cody]

We could debate what's better for a stock turbo, TMIC or FMIC, but the thing that sucks about Subarus is that the turbo is 13 miles away from the headers. :(

[sperry]

Cmon maaan...you gotta give me more credit than that. If I knew what that setting was, I would have done exactly that. The thing is the company I had install my valves, springs, etc. is a really....lazy company. They did not note what my setting where, nor did they restore the setting to that.

Now I'm sure you'll reply with "Why did you have that company do your work then?"

My only answer to you is...Lesson Learned. :|

So, the cam settings seemed really good. Then you get new valves, springs and retainers installed and start mucking with the cam settings without having recorded the original good working position for them?

As far as I can tell, you were the lazy one that sent your car off to be worked on without knowing the condition of the car before you gave it to them.

So, how about getting in touch with whoever originally installed the adjustable cams and ask them what they set them to? Or ask the cam manufacturer what they recommend? Or go to EVOm and ask the people there that would likely know more about it than us? Or maybe the shop that did the springs, etc, actually did put the cams back as they originally received them, but the other changes to the car have resulted in a narrower power band?

My point is, if you don't know the procedure for properly figuring out the best cam settings, you're probably better off getting someone that does to give you a good starting point and some tips on fine tuning, which is I guess what you're really looking for with this thread. I would think that knowledge is pretty EVO specific, unfortunately there just aren't a lot of EVO people on this board. :(

But if you want to talk about Subaru cams... I can probably dig up a basic variable timing map for you. :P

[Braydog]

We have 3 that I know of. They can chime in. We have Kevin, who used to work for Vishnu, the premier Evo modification company. We have Cory, who may not know alot about specific Evo applications, but has helped in the past, and seems to have a great way of finding stuff out, then we have Tyson, who as I understood it, built his car for the type of application I am after. 2 of the 3 people mentioned troll this forum often. Then there is the possibility that somebody might know a little bit about Evos, that doesn't necessarily mean they have to own one.

In regards to your suggestions;

A GOOD shop would have returned the cam settings back to where I had them, like I requested. Well obviously it didn't happen, and as a result of this, and other things, I will not be bringing my car back to them.

You also treat this post as if this is the only place I've asked. I've asked on EvoM, Norcal Evo, SoCal Evo, and others. Just because few people on this forum have knowledge, doesnt mean they cant have great ideas. Extensive searches on the above mentioned forums netted no results. I can find discussions related to drag racing or street racing, and read them 'til I'm blind, but it wont help.

I do know quite a bit about Cam Timing, but what sounds logical, and looks good on paper, isn't always the case. I could find a deserted stretch of highway, bring my tools, laptop, and data cable to log 40-120 mph pulls, but A) That would take all day, B) I risk getting in an accident, or C) I risk getting caught by law enforcement.

In the end, it is just much easier to ask on all of the forums I belong to, to see if anyone has already done the dirty work. It might appear as though I'm being lazy, but would you waste hours out of your day inventing the wheel, when you know it already exists?

All of your suggestions were valid, and I appreciate the input, just need a bit more technical advice.

On a performance to $$ ratio, are cams on a Scooby even worth it?

[Kevin M]

On a performance to $$ ratio, are cams on a Scooby even worth it?

Yes, if you are taking advantage of them.

[tysonK]

I don't know any good cam settings.

[Bob Danger]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you where unable to install boost, and oil temp. gauges, right? Gauges are relatively easy, I recall doing a couple sets on DSMs in my earlier days.

My question is, if you can't install gauges, why are you trying to tune cams? It sounds like you are in over your head.

[AlexR]

Over your head is cool. The old Sink or swim method. You either end up a very confident swimmer, or fish food.

If you feel you can learn it, keep trying. Someone eventually will help you out. there's a few Evo guys on http://www.formularallyx.com/ that may be able to help. and one of the STI guys there really knows his motors.

[Braydog]

Asking for help with installation of gauges is in a whole nother ballpark. What if the reason for me asking for help was due to lack of tools? It certainly requires more than a cam adjustment. 5mm hex and 17mm socket. Pretty easy to come by, even with my limited amount of tools. I learn by doing. If I break it, then I learn quicker. If you're one of the ones that has helped me in the past, you'll see that it is exactly that; help. I dont expect you to do the job for me. I'll be right down there with you annoying the **** out of you while you work asking questions. Its how I learn. So far, I've had help with certain things only once. If it breaks again or I need to replace it, I fix it myself.

This wasnt a request on "how to adjust cams". I feel if I'm asking about different cam settings, I'm past that point. That said, what makes you think I am in over my head by simply asking if anybody, especially the people who have worked with Evo's before, found any settings that work better than others. In my world, especially on EvoM, everything is related to drag racing, not alot of test & tunes for auto x, or road racing.

Please dont take this as a hostile retort to your post. I am pretty sure you were just trying to help me open my eyes and realize I should learn the basics and not get my motor torn apart realizing I only have a screw driver to put it back together. I appreciate it, but this is how I learn. I take **** apart, scratch my head, and put it back together. I was simply asking if anyone had some knowledge on the subject so I do not have to go out on the street and do 100mph pulls to see what setting worked.

Anyways, I was able to play with my settings and came up with something I think I like. Fairly smooth idle too, so I guess its a win/win.

[Bob Danger]

Asking for help with installation of gauges is in a whole nother ballpark. What if the reason for me asking for help was due to lack of tools? It certainly requires more than a cam adjustment. 5mm hex and 17mm socket. Pretty easy to come by, even with my limited amount of tools. I learn by doing. If I break it, then I learn quicker. If you're one of the ones that has helped me in the past, you'll see that it is exactly that; help. I dont expect you to do the job for me. I'll be right down there with you annoying the **** out of you while you work asking questions. Its how I learn. So far, I've had help with certain things only once. If it breaks again or I need to replace it, I fix it myself.

This wasnt a request on "how to adjust cams". I feel if I'm asking about different cam settings, I'm past that point. That said, what makes you think I am in over my head by simply asking if anybody, especially the people who have worked with Evo's before, found any settings that work better than others. In my world, especially on EvoM, everything is related to drag racing, not alot of test & tunes for auto x, or road racing.

Please dont take this as a hostile retort to your post. I am pretty sure you were just trying to help me open my eyes and realize I should learn the basics and not get my motor torn apart realizing I only have a screw driver to put it back together. I appreciate it, but this is how I learn. I take **** apart, scratch my head, and put it back together. I was simply asking if anyone had some knowledge on the subject so I do not have to go out on the street and do 100mph pulls to see what setting worked.

Anyways, I was able to play with my settings and came up with something I think I like. Fairly smooth idle too, so I guess its a win/win.
Trial and error with a 4G63? Can't go wrong there, it's a strong engine, with a good history. Best of luck.

[jmanfoo]

what were the settings before you started changing them? ie. when you got it back from the shop and when you gave it to them. I would imagine 0° would be stock but I could be wrong.

[jmanfoo]

and did you change the actual cams as well or just add the adjustment sprocket along with springs, etc.